KGNU DJ Robin Claire chats with Ragged Union about their upcoming album, Pyramid Stairs, set to drop in late February 2025. The band shares insights into their creative process, the band’s dynamics, including their collaborative songwriting approach and the mix of bluegrass and other musical influences and their participation in the Midwinter Bluegrass Festival and a performance at Boulder’s Chautauqua Community House in early March. (Interview date: 1/25/2025)
Robin Claire: So I’d like to give a big welcome and big thank you to Ragged Union. Thanks guys for showing up today. Let’s hear a song and then we’ll have a little chat. What do you say?
[Ragged Union plays Spell of Rain]
Whoo. Thank you. That’s live in the studio from Ragged Union. And if you’re feeling it, come on out and join us over here at 4900 Walnut. Thanks, guys.
Ragged Union: Yeah, we’re gonna have a big party in the parking lot afterwards.
Robin Claire: Alright. Snowball fight. I want to be on your team.
Ragged Union: You’ve never seen Seabob throw a snowball.
Robin Claire: Oh, Geoff, your face and your voice is certainly well known around these parts. And do you want to tell us a little bit about the tune y’all just played? And for those of you that don’t know, Jeff Union is on the guitar with Ragged Union.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Thank you. That’s a song called Spell of Rain. And it’s the first song, the number one track on an album that we’re about to put out. It’ll be our first album since 2022. The album is going to be called Pyramid Stairs and we’re hoping to get it out maybe end of February. We’re waiting on some artwork to come in and that’s about the last piece of the puzzle. Then we’re going to drop it on the universe.
Robin Claire: So, I’m always intrigued by album names. So first of all, is it S T A I R S or is it S T A R E S?
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Oh, now we have to change the font.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): That’s deep, because those pyramid pictures with the I on the top.
Robin Claire: Exactly, yeah.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Oh man. I don’t know. Maybe we just, maybe we won’t write it down and we’ll leave it open to interpretation.
Robin Claire: There we go. Because, I think it was your previous album, Round Feet, Chrome Smile? Yeah. What was that title about? There’s an in joke that I just was not in on, obviously.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Oh, no. They’re just all, that’s a song that’s on the record. Yes. And that one is about a vehicle of some variety. So the round feet are the tires and the chrome smile is the bumper on some like fifties, whatever, with a Plymouth. It’s a Plymouth V8. That’s what it was.
Robin Claire: Alright. I definitely could see the grill immediately when I saw the title of that album a long time ago.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): And this one, The Pyramid Stairs, is an album title that Rebekah picked and that’s also a line in the song Spell of Rain. In one of the verses there’s a line about how the thief and the priest share benediction as they pass on the pyramid stairs. It’s all very philosophical.
Robin Claire: Yeah. We’ll have to have you back on for a talk show and you can all tell us about how deep you all go. Bluegrass players, it’s not just a fiddle and a banjo. These people, there’s a lot of time up there in the Appalachian Mountains when you’re playing music and just figuring things out. Elio, I know that when you did that album, Round Feet, Chrome Smile, you were in charge of Turning a synagogue into a recording studio.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Oh yeah, we did that.
Robin Claire: Yeah, how did that go? You’re the genius that worked with all of that. Was that easy or was it a big task?
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): It wasn’t too bad. It was pretty fun. I think we succeeded. It was a good experience. We did that, we jammed that in five days or something, right? We looked really strange, probably loading all our stuff in there at what time was it, 11 at night or something? And gobos and a bunch of equipment and then we basically stayed in there and ordered a lot of to-go food and made a record in this big place. It sounded really cool. We were excited. And then we got out also in the middle of the night loading a bunch of stuff in this very residential neighborhood in the nice part of Boulder. That was a fun experience.
Robin Claire: Cool. Yeah. It sure sounded good. Yeah, that’s Elio Schiavo playing mandolin for Ragged Union, and the beautiful Rebekah Durham is on fiddle, playing with quite a few bands around here. She took the long route via Juilliard, right?
Ragged Union (Rebekah Durham): Yeah, we don’t talk about it.
Robin Claire: I always wonder how the parents feel when they, their children become these amazing classical players and then they join a bluegrass band.
Ragged Union (Rebekah Durham): My parents liked it. We’re from Texas. And I also probably appease them a little bit because I do still play some classical around town too, a little bit. A little of both.
Robin Claire: Great. Cool. Let’s hear another tune and we’ll talk with the other folks after this next tune. What do you got for us?
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): So we’re going to do another one that’s going to be on the new record. And this song is called Lower Than Lonesome.
[Ragged Union plays Lower Than Lonesome]
Robin Claire: I’d like to remind everyone that you are listening to KGNU FM, Boulder, and KGNU 1390, Denver. Ragged Union, pretty cool. Very cool outside. Cooler still that you all made it here this morning. And even cooler all your music you’re playing. It’s great.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): We have Ian Hagley with us on the bass today. And Chris Elliott on the banjo. And it’s super cool that those guys made it here. Cause they both live in far south Denver. Like Littleton or New Mexico.
Robin Claire: How was it in New Mexico this morning when you left?
Ragged Union (Ian Hagley): It’s not too bad. Easy drive up.
Robin Claire: Alright. Tell us, how is it playing bass with this band? Are you having fun with a not so strictly bluegrass band?
Ragged Union (Ian Hagley): Oh, of course I am. I enjoy playing with these folks.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): We paid him to say that.
Robin Claire: He gets paid to say that, yes. Who are your musical influences, Ian?
Ragged Union (Ian Hagley): Oh, man. Do you have all day?
Robin Claire: Not all day, but we’ve got a little time.
Ragged Union (Ian Hagley): Oh, there’s bass players I like, and I listen to all sorts of music that surprises folks sometimes, so I don’t know, there’s jazz, bluegrass. I studied classical music, but I don’t really listen to classical music. Fiddle music. I don’t know. I feel like I could talk about it all day.
Robin Claire: Give us a little tutorial here, just briefly about if you are playing jazz bass or bluegrass bass. How would you define the difference, or how would you describe each?
Ragged Union (Ian Hagley): Bluegrass bass is more percussive. And the jazz bass, then the length of the notes creates a different feel, where bluegrass bass, you just just have to drive a lot of the time. And if you play longer notes, especially not in unison with the rest of the band, it can throw people off a bit.
Robin Claire: You’re the bassist and the drummer and not unlike the chunking of the mandolin keeps time a lot of the time as well, huh? Chris, tell us about your banjo. What kind of banjo are you playing?
Ragged Union (Chris Elliott): This is a Style 1. It’s a 1932 Gibson and I like it a lot. I’ve just had somebody, Don Bryant make the Gibson replica neck for it. And it’s the first radiused neck that I’ve ever had. That’s been a different experience.
Robin Claire: Okay, maybe you could define a radius neck.
Ragged Union (Chris Elliott): For everybody listening that’s interested, a radius neck is a little bit curved. The fretboard is a little bit curved. And there’s different degrees of the radius, too. Mine’s pretty light because it can definitely feel quite a bit different from the, than just the flat fretboard. So I just wanted to go a little bit, but I like it. It makes playing weird chords a little easier for your hands. So yeah, I’m enjoying it.
Robin Claire: Cool. And considering that you’re not a strictly bluegrass band, how is it playing banjo in slightly different styles? What’s that like for you?
Ragged Union (Chris Elliott): I like it a lot. I’ve always done that. I like bands that have original music because it just creates a vehicle for me. It’s like a canvas that you can just try anything you want, there’s really not any rules, although I’m trying to use all the elements of traditional playing, I still use tons of Scruggs style things from Don Reno and then everybody else beyond that, has been an influence for me too, so yeah, I like it a lot, it’s a lot of fun.
Robin Claire: Cool. Now does the radius neck, does that sort of align with The Pyramid Stairs?
Ragged Union (Chris Elliott): It, yes. The stairs are radius. It’s a, yeah, it’s a radius staircase.
Robin Claire: With the sun at the top. I don’t care who wants to chime in here, any of you, but what is it like when you have a new song, either an original, does the group work together a lot of the times, or do you just come to the band and say, hey, listen to this, and here we go.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Yeah, I don’t know that we’ve collaborated entirely on a new song, but most times somebody will bring a night, bring a song, a completed song, in this band anyways, but then we all will collaborate further on the arrangement or like in that last song that we did Lower Than Lonesome in the chorus there with Elio and Rebekah singing that kind of R&B style backup harmony stuff they’re doing. That was, so I wrote that song, but that was Elio’s idea, if I’m not mistaken, to do that harmony singing. So that’s the kind of how we work anyways, as far as new material goes.
Robin Claire: And Elio and Rebekah are a married couple, everyone, so they really get to figure it out at home. They are a couple of married folks.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Would you ever know it?
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Is that why you’re always in the same house together? That’s really weird. I would like to just say while we’re here not only are we super pleased to be playing at the Midwinter Festival that’s coming up in about, what, about three weeks here, Valentine’s Day weekend down in North Glen. It’s been a couple of years since we’ve had the pleasure to do that event. We’ve done it several times in the past and we’re super excited to be a part of that again this year. And I know you said you might have some. Something to give away. So I know you’ll get to that. But I also wanted to mention another event that we have coming up in March. I think it’s gonna be March 16th right here in Boulder. We will be doing a show over at the Chautauqua Community House with our good friends, Tarka. So we’re really looking forward to that as well. Those guys are great songwriters and players and performers. And I think they’re doing a whole family band thing nowadays because their son If I’m not mistaken, is on bass with them now, so it’s the Tarka Family Band.
Robin Claire: Alright. Have any of you all been in a family band?
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Rebecca and I are in a family.
Robin Claire: Yes, that’s true. Elio and Rebecca. As we just brought up. What else have you got for us? What’s another tune we can hear from you all?
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): We’ll try an instrumental number for you here, see if our fingers have warmed up from being out in the snow.
Robin Claire: Yeah, my gosh.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): This is an original instrumental number. And it’s named after a little town in North Georgia that we played at some years ago. It’s called Chickamauga.
[Ragged Union plays Chickamauga]
Robin Claire: Alright, North Georgia is gorgeous.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Yeah. I don’t think they’re going to invite me back for that, let’s just say that.
Robin Claire: Oh wait, there’s a better story than that, come on.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): I don’t want to embarrass myself any more than I need to or anyone else. But, no, that’s a cool event, but yeah we did that maybe like in the, earlier, the pre-COVID version of this band, probably like 2015, 2016, something like that. There’s a lot more bands in the front range these days.
Robin Claire: So many, but you all lucked out finding each other. Come on, what a great combination you’ve got going on right now.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Yeah, it worked out. It’s pretty cool. Pretty cool. Let’s see, so yeah, you guys folks can stay in touch with us or find out what we’re doing and all if you go to, we’re at raggedunionbluegrass.com And we’ll be at Midwinter, our sets are early afternoon, Saturday and Sunday. Nice. And there’s a whole bunch of other great bands there, I know Tony Trischka doing a couple of sets there and Sister Sadie’s doing some stuff there. Lots of our fun local bands will be there as well. And of course, it’s always a good hang and lots of great picking especially late at night and should be a good time. So yeah, come on out and say hi.
Robin Claire: Absolutely now going back to your new CD that’s going to be coming out. Are they all originals?
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): There is one cover. That is a Marshall Tucker band song.
Robin Claire: All right, Southern Rock. I love it.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): We’re not gonna do that one today, but that’s You’ll have to come to the festival to hear which one. It’s not the one you think. Let me tell you that, but it’s one of the good ones.
Robin Claire: So Rebekah, is it okay hanging out with all these guys all the time?
Ragged Union (Rebekah Durham): Oh it’s great. Yeah, we went on tour. I bossed them around. Ordered them to the best coffee shop in each fine city that we were in. It was a great dynamic.
Robin Claire: Yeah, wonderful. So who’s the early riser in the band?
Ragged Union: Elio. Maybe Ian.
Ragged Union (Rebekah Durham): Ian was always very punctual in the mornings. Very helpful.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Aggressively punctual. Oh.
Robin Claire: That sounds dangerous. Not sure that’s the title I’d want.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Yes, we were woken every morning by the sound of Ian cursing and throwing suitcases into the back of the van. It was like a steady alarm clock.
Robin Claire: But they’re really friendly folks. I know that for a fact. So we’ve got a couple of people in the studio right now listening. Ellie and Foxy are here. And they’re all ears. They want to hear some more.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Is that the elephant that’s all ears?
Robin Claire: Yep. I’m glad somebody got my part.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Is the elephant named Foxy?
Robin Claire: No. Hold up Foxy so they can see Foxy.
Ragged Union (Elio Schiavo): Wait, that is the elephant.
Robin Claire: We bought Ellie. Ellie the elephant. Oh, Ellie the elephant. But more importantly, there’s another tune in you guys. I just know it.
Ragged Union (Geoff Union): Ellie might really enjoy this one. It’s in here somewhere. Yeah, we’ll do another one for you here. Another one again from the new album. The album is called Pyramid Stairs. Hopefully have it out late in February. We’ll have more information about it. at the festival. And as we go along, this is a bluegrass number that I wrote. You’ll hear what it’s about. It’s a pretty straight forward situation. It’s called Knoxville.
Robin Claire: All right. Thanks, Geoff.
Robin Claire: Wow, I think Ellie really enjoyed that tune. We’ve got elephants and foxes in here, and people. Yeah, it’s lots of fun. Thanks you guys for coming down. Do you have another one for us? Or have we reached your limits for this morning?
Ragged Union: What should we do? I don’t know if we can do what we used to do. We didn’t really run that one. We haven’t really played a gig together since the beginning of November, so it’s remembering all the songs that we’re supposed to know.
Robin Claire: All right we certainly wouldn’t have been able to guess that by the way you’re sounding this morning Especially on a freezing cold morning, but the snow is fluffy. So that’s a good thing. You didn’t have to really dig in to get your car out. Not too bad.
Ragged Union: All right. So we’ll try one more here.
Robin Claire: Oh, cool. Thank you so much and thanks for coming down. Ragged Union, everybody.
Ragged Union: We thank you. Give us just a minute for everybody to tune up here.
Robin Claire: Yeah. I’m going to let everybody know then. That we’ve got the tickets to give away for Sunday’s show at Midwinter Bluegrass Festival. That is of course the weekend, President’s Weekend or Valentine’s Weekend. Just depending where your heart is. With politics or love. I don’t know if the two ever meet, so anyway, we’ll go with love from here. Anyway, this is at the Marriott in North Glen, and we hope you’re a member, but if not, it’s okay. You can still win the tickets, which I will give away when Ragged Union, after their last song, which is happening right now, I believe.
Ragged Union: Alright, you ready for us, Robin?
Robin Claire: You betcha!
