Listen to the story:
Alexis Kenyon: Before we get into everything, I want to explain for listeners and also warn listeners that there are some extremely wonky policy issues that are making it really hard for anyone to do anything about this drilling.
And so part of the reason why Colorado’s Energy and Carbon Management Commission or ECMC,which is where you’re presenting this morning, they are the state commission who is supposed to be in charge of regulating the oil and gas industry. Part of the reason why they are shooting down a lot of opposing arguments to this drilling is because they say it’s only their job to regulate the oil and gas industry’s surface-level impact.
So if the oil and gas industry is doing something that hurts the land that would pose a threat to people’s health or the environment, they say, “okay, that is their job.” But when it comes to air quality, that’s actually a different department. That’s the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE).
But then the CDPHE says, “oh no, actually we’re only in charge of regulating emissions from oil and gas after the industry is already up and running.” After drilling has been completed, they say the drilling process is actually the EPA’s job to regulate, or the federal Environmental Protection Agency’s job. But then the EPA says, “oh no, that’s the state’s job.” And then referred you back to the ECMC, which is where you’re presenting today and where we started.
And I mean, do I have all this straight because this seems like there are some obvious problems.
Randy Willard: Welcome to my world.
Alexis Kenyon: Right. Okay. So, but you did have two long hearings last week and you have closing arguments today. You can’t talk about air quality impacts because that’s apparently not something that ECMC considers. So, I mean, what are you presenting? What are your arguments for why they should not allow drilling in at this Lowery site?
Randy Willard: So the first day we had to convince them that we were, in fact, an affected party and the commission did, in fact, agree that we are, in fact, an affected party. If we had not been given that, then basically Civitas would have presented their case and then the ECMC would have simply had that information to vote on. But because we’re an affected party, we actually were able to put a case out there for ourselves.
Alexis Kenyon: So by affected party, are you saying this drilling would have effects on the land that could affect the community who lived near the reservoir? I mean, spell that out. In what ways did… What are your main arguments for that?
Randy Willard: Okay. So, yeah, yeah, so, as part of our ongoing work, we’ve had access to a geologist, hydrogeologist, a toxics and remediation expert, and also an acoustics and vibration engineer. And so our case was basically to figure out what those people could make out of their plans. And mind you, we’ve all read through the oil and gas plans as well. And then they poked holes at, you know, where were the potential problems.
The acoustics guy, they’ve basically given in. Civitas said, “yeah, we didn’t do enough of this stuff. We need to do some more changes.” We’ll see what they actually do.
Then the geologist wanted to make the point that when they actually do the explosions, there could be seismicity underneath both the reservoir, because they’re going to drill under the reservoir.
And, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the landfill Superfund site, but it is 170 pits that are a few hundred feet below the ground. They’re unlined, basically other than some dirt, and they have about 130 million gallons of everything from sewage to PFAS to all sorts of industrial waste from the seventies and eighties. There are horrible photos if you go Googling for them, that show trucks just spewing this stuff into these pits.
Anyway, there’s now about a three-mile-long plume where it’s leaking. And that leak runs from basically the corner where this fracking is going to be, three miles due north. And until we took action with the EPA, they were actually going to drill under the Superfund site, but they have now agreed not to do that.
So it’s just, there’s just a lot of concerns about, you know, if something were to happen, like an earthquake, which is rare, and it is unlikely, and I have to agree with that, but if it were to happen, and say the dam at the reservoir were to break or start to leak in such a way. We were told by the geologists that that water would run through the Superfund site and all the way down to Pueblo. So again, how likely is this? It’s probably not very likely at all. But, what do we do if it does happen?
So those were our primary arguments.
Again, Mike Foote, who’s our lawyer, didn’t think that the toxic nature of the actual drilling was worth bringing up. He felt like it had been fought and lost in the state. We have had some limited luck with kind of the public health aspect of it, but we got shut down a few months ago by the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment who told us at the time that the 160 wells would have absolutely no environmental impact on our homes or lives.
Alexis Kenyon: How do they say that? I mean, even if the CDPHE is not considering the first part of actually drilling these wells, which we know is by far the most toxic part. They have conducted studies showing that just having these wells means there’s going to be a lot of toxic particles that are released into the air. We know that, right?
Randy Willard: We do.
Alexis Kenyon: And so how do they say there’s no negative health impacts?
Randy Willard: They hired a person who had 15 years in the oil and gas industry to come and be their expert. And that’s what she told them.
Again, I’ve pulled off some of the other layers here so they don’t air permit during the fracking itself, so she didn’t have to take into account those emissions. She only had to take into account the emissions once the things are in production. And once they’re in production, they aren’t great, but they’re certainly a lot better than when they’re being fracked.
And so we’ve gone back and forth and we’ve written innumerable letters. We contacted Congressman Crow again, He wrote another letter on our behalf to the EPA, but now the EPA is ignoring us as well.
Alexis Kenyon: I guess what is so alarming is that, you know, Colorado is in trouble for its air quality. The EPA says it itself, that we’re in severe violation of the Clean Air Act. We’re being fined.
Randy Willard: Top five in the country.
Alexis Kenyon: Isn’t the EPA supposed to be holding Colorado accountable?
Randy Willard: Yeah. It’s very obvious. Like you said, we know these things about fracking.
We know the biggest contributor to our ozone issues along the Front Range is in fact fracking. That we should be able to do something about this and you know the EPA keeps fining us and telling us we’re out of compliance. But until the state puts a rule in place that says we have to pay attention to that, they don’t have to pay attention to it.
You know, you asked about the EPA too, so I will throw out that Suncor, the refinery that we’re all familiar with here in the Denver area, and the zip code that’s directly around it is the most polluted zip code in the entire country. That includes the Cancer Alley in Houston, and the massive cancer, I don’t even know what you want to call it, in southwest Louisiana, where they have the massive compressed natural gas depots. It’s just astounding. And we’re worse here.
So, they had discussions and negotiations with Suncor and fined them $13 million dollars last year, but it’s just like the companies that frack. They just look at the penalties and they laugh. And they pay them and go on their way.
And that’s how they’re going to treat the wildlife. They’re literally violating some of the rules for high priority habitat. And they’ll simply pay the Colorado Parks and Wildlife people some money and then it goes away.
Alexis Kenyon: So, you had hearings last week. You have your final hearing this week. I mean, what are next steps? What can we expect looking forward?
Randy Willard: So, the next steps are we get some time to post our closing argument. The commissioners will then go away and deliberate and come back with a decision. If I were to guess right now, they’ll probably come down against us, either 4-0 or 3-1**, and so the cap will be approved. And then we have to move our focus to the county, because each individual well pad then has to get approved at the county level.
Alexis Kenyon: Okay. So then, so you’re in Arapahoe County. I mean, what do you think your odds are there? How will things go there?
Randy Willard: So this is, this is one of the issues with Senate Bill 19-181 is that they pushed control for these decisions back to the locales, which is great, right?
Alexis Kenyon: Just to jump in for listeners who are not aware of what Senate Bill 19-181 is, so this is the bill that passed in 2019. It changed the title of the Colorado Oil and Gas Commission to the Colorado Energy and Carbon Management Commission. It’s the commission you’re in front of today.
With the passing of the bill, this commission had to start prioritizing public health and the environment when considering what oil and gas development to permit.
Another thing the bill did was give decision-making power back to the the local governments. So if a county didn’t want a big oil and gas development in their backyard, they could turn it down.
Randy Willard: Yeah, but they didn’t fund anyone to be smart about this. So, when we first started working with the county out here, they had a woman who was not an oil and gas specialist. And she left, she retired. It was fine, whatever.
But then, they brought in somebody, Jeffrey Moore, who had spent 19 years with Chevron. At the same time, Civitas has got contracts with the county for naming rights on their arenas and some other things like that. So it’s, you know. And, the city of Aurora is completey pro oil and gas. They made their own fracking rules about a year before I started getting involved with this.
In fact, at the opening of the Tuesday hearing, one of the city council people came out and just sang the praises of Civitas and how this was great for the communities and no one was being harmed and da da da da da. So they’ve been of no help.
So as citizens of Aurora, we’ve basically been marooned. We really only have only ourselves and, you know, the county to hopefully balance it out.
** Since this story aired, the ECMC approved the drilling by a 3-1 vote.
