Tony Newton, legendary bassist and producer, shares his journey from playing with John Lee Hooker to becoming a key figure in Motown at just 17. He reflects on touring with Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, recording hits like “Baby Love,” and the dynamic artistry behind Motown’s sound. Newton emphasizes the skill of session musicians in adapting their playing to enhance each artist’s unique style, offering a fascinating glimpse into the magic behind some of music’s most timeless records. (Interview: 5/30/25)
Dr. Decibel: All right, everybody. Welcome back to Dusty Grooves, where we kick off every weekend, every Friday night with all the classic funk, soul, and R&B that we all love. As promised, I am thrilled right now to be joined on the phone by a true legend, bassist, producer, composer, and one of the foundational forces behind some of Motown’s most unforgettable tracks. Tony Newton from Stevie Wonder to Tony Williams from The Motor City to Jazz Fusions Outer Limits. This man has literally played it all. Let’s get going. How are you doing, Tony?
Tony Newton: I’m doing great. It’s my honor to be doing this interview with you.
Dr. Decibel: Thank you so much for taking time out for KGNU and our listeners. You started Motown at just 17 years old. Tell us how did you land that gig, and what do you remember about those first sessions there?
Tony Newton: Detroit was the hotbed for recording, touring all kinds of music, regardless of whether it was rock, r and b, blues or jazz. And so what happened was a lot of the blues players would come to Detroit from Chicago, be it, little Walter t-Bone, John Lee, any of these guys, right? So I was playing with John Lee at the time. I don’t know if you know this, I’ll send you a picture, but I played woodwinds all throughout school. And so what happened was in the early sixties, as you know, the electric base came on the scene and as soon as I heard it, I said, I want it in on this instrument. So. John Lee is actually the only person with whom I had the pleasure of playing both sax and bass. So I was playing with John Lee at the time, and Motown is exploding in Detroit at the time, and everybody wants to get in with them, right? Because it’s the hottest thing going. And, you have to have, some connections. So I’m playing in this club with John Lee Hooker and I don’t know that Motown is coming to see me. Hank calls me, the head, a and r person at the time came and saw me playing with John Lee. The next thing I know, the next morning I get a knock on my door. from Ronnie White, from Smokey and Miracles saying that they wanted me to take Jameson’s place and play with them on the road. they wanted Jameson to stay in the studio because they were, recording day and night. So he didn’t have time to go on the road, so I didn’t have to do an audition or anything.
So they, I went and played with Smoke and the Miracles, and then what happened was right after I got with them, there was a couple of tours and one of ’em was the European tour, the 1965 tour, the Motown Review that went to England and Paris, France, the Motown review and. In, Paris, France. It was the recording of that tour. So on the tour, since Jameson wasn’t there, I played with the Funk Brothers. It’s online, if you look it up, Motown, RSG 1965. while we’re over there, I’m playing with everyone and you can see me in the video with Stevie Warner. Smokey, the Temps, the Supremes, Marvin Vandellas. When we came back, it was a 30 day tour and I had never played a session, with the point was that I’d done other sessions in Detroit, but not a Motown session.
So at this particular time, Holland Dozer Holland was experimenting with two basses and three guitars. So they called me and I think the first song was Baby Love. So, we did Baby Love Stop the Name of Love. And what I loved was The Supremes. And then, there was nowhere to run by Martha and the Vanela and reach out by the Four Tops. Let’s take nowhere to run because it’s the we, James and I are so tight on these sessions. They sound like one player, but you can hear, if you listen closely, you can hear both of the parks. Let me give you an example, like on Nowhere to run, but Martha, the Vand Dallas. So Jameson tells me, okay, you play the hard part, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I play the low part. Since I’m the young guy, of course I’m gonna listen to everything he says. So then he comes in with the man was a genius in every respect. Right? This is my, these are my first sessions at Motown and I was extremely happy because I had just come off of the tour with all of the Motown acts and I go directly into the studio and with the Funk brothers. I mean, a lot of people don’t understand the funk Brothers are more than one set of musicians, Van Dyke and Robert White and Jack Ashford was with us when we went to England. And so there was probably Johnny Griffith father John, on keyboards, in the studio. Pesto, probably on drums, you know, so there were different, there was a range of, musicians that were the funk brothers or, you know, ’cause Barry didn’t like the name, the Funk brothers. He didn’t want nothing to do with the funk. And fact, Benny Benjamin, he is the one that came up with the name. So it was just the Motown musicians, right? And so that’s kind of the experience, that I had. it was a tremendous experience every time I went in there. first of all, you have to know how to read music. You couldn’t get it. Wawa Watson is only person in history that’s ever played on any Motown stuff, that couldn’t read music, but he didn’t need to. Right? Because the Wawa was the, the effect and the latest, newest thing. And Wawa knew, exactly what to play. Now, that was the, the real special thing about all of the Funk brothers and those musicians, and what I learned as, let’s say he did not play the same way for the Supremes or for the Vs.
Or the Mar labs. Or, or, or Kim Weston or the four top of Temptations. What we understood is for each artist, we all tuned in to that particular artist energy and we became at one with that. So we would play what was right for them. Right. And that’s a major thing that a lot of musicians just don’t understand as well as they don’t understand about playing ahead on the beat, behind the beat, or ahead of the beat and the treasure. What we’re talking about is every artist has a certain place in a beat. Let me give you an example. So for example, James Brown is always a little ahead of the beat. That’s obvious to anybody. Whereas let’s say The Supremes, they’re, they’re on the beat, right? And so all of these little things that we’re talking about, these little subtleties and details are extremely valuable when you’re recording hit records that are meaningful to the people, that listen to ’em, right? And to create meaningful music. These details are very, they matter a lot.
Dr. Decibel: to take in, right? I mean, isn’t that really what makes, you know, a true session player? Yes. I mean, that’s the master of the craft is a session player. ’cause they can step into any session with any artist and, and if they’re good, they will, like you say, accentuate that particular artist’s sound without any, it’s a very selfless act really. ’cause you’re working.
Tony Newton: I get asked this all the time how I can play on so many different genres of stuff. And I, my answer is I become at one with the music and the artist, right? And as you say, any session player, that’s what they need to do, they’re not going to be there if the producers. Don’t think you can bring something to the table for that artist. Number one, write something different and something really real and that’s why they hired you in the first place. ’cause they know that you can, attune to the artist and bring something to the table. That’s very unique.
Dr. Decibel: Take us back again into the Motown. What was the vibe like inside that studio? I mean, during its heyday you were there at a very seminal time. It had to have just been cracking with possibilities and with talent. Do you have any memories that stand out?
Tony Newton: everything stands out. I think I was the youngest person besides Stevie and I don’t think there’s much difference in our age. I was the youngest person at Motown. However, it was, extremely. Joyful musical and loving experience between everyone there. Now within Detroit, Detroit is a creative hub and so it was like that vibe was all over Detroit, right? There was so many studios and labels, they’ve come from out of town ’cause they want the Detroit sound and all of that. And, and the record industry, it’s exploding. Everyone wants to learn, tune into the creativity to create recordings because the recording industry is exploding. And so at Motown, it’s a family vibe. That’s what made it different than any other place. There were other labels and stuff like that in Detroit, but Motown obviously had the strongest one because it’s soul records and all the music is timeless as it’s still. So to this day, and people still love it. And so it was an extremely joyful experience, but you still grew, I would say every song that you play, if you’re in tune, you grow from it, and you learn something from each tune, because it’s like meeting a new woman, right. So you gotta figure her out and do the right things and, and you wanna make the relationship as good as it can be.
Dr. Decibel: over a little bit every time.
Tony Newton: Yeah. Right. So it was like, that’s the first time I’ve ever said that it was like a woman. And so, but it was, it had that type of closeness. The Motown family.
Dr. Decibel: How did your time as Motown’s touring musical director shape your approach to playing and arranging?
Tony Newton: Okay, so Doc, this is another thing that’s different in my life and everyone else’s. Now, I tell everybody I’m classically and Street Train, right? But I did not start writing until I was out of Motown. Now, for me, I’m there as a young kid, but I’m soaking up everything I can from all the producers and all the writers. And of course, I’m working with the, one of the greatest songwriters in history, smokey Robinson. So I’m soaking up all of this. And so I did have a couple of ideas and Smokey liked them for a song, and, we did record them. I don’t remember what happened ’cause so much stuff had happened. Then. What happened was Colin Dozier formed their own label, and so I became the Jameson over there and they gave me the group, the eighth day. So that was, I had been in other groups, just like I told you, I’m going to send you this picture with David Ruffin and I in the same band together before he got what, what Doug Temps, right? And so all of this, it just kept going. So I started writing when I had the eighth day. That’s when I start writing songs. I start writing some instrumentals and things like that. Then after that group broke up, I continued to form other groups and continued to write. Now in 19 70, 75, I’m sorry, 75, I moved from Detroit to Los Angeles because after the riots and all the car industry dropped out of Detroit, Detroit just kind of folded up.
There was no work in the clubs or recording studios had gone down everything. Right. So I didn’t want to move to New York or Atlanta or Nashville, any of them. ’cause when I was a smokey, we’d come to California at least two times a year, and I always liked the culture, the weather. So I moved out here. And then, the notion came to my mind, I wanna be as good as anybody at Motown is as good as anybody, any composer in history, including Beethoven and Chopin and Les and all of these people. So I went back to school once I moved to LA and I graduated with honors and all of that. And I studied piano theory and composition. I studied real composition, right? So I was able to put my, both, my classical training and my street training. I call it my street training. That’s the song writing and all of that, and producing. I could put it all together and that’s how I was able to be the person I am today, right? Is because. I put those two things together.
Dr. Decibel: Well, that leads me right into my next question. What was it like working with Tony Williams in the Tony Williams lifetime?
Tony Newton: I’m doing lots of, tons of sessions around here, little Richard are Rico, all of, but Jackson five and all of that. I called a friend. I don’t know if you know who Michael Henderson is. He’s also a bassist from Detroit and he was playing with Miles Davis at the time, and Ralph Armstrong, also from Detroit. He was playing with, John McLaughlin so I called Michael. He was in New York there, they’re recording, Jack Johnson album. So I told him I’m looking for something to get into. And so a group to get into, he said, well, yeah, I know of this group, Tony Williams lifetime. They’ve tried out about 40 caps, including Jocko and Jeff. And so I sent Tony clip, you know, short clips of songs I played on and stuff like that. They flew me into New York, and as they say, the rest is history. Right. But I had never, I, I played, you know, all kinds of music, but not fusion per se, because it was only what, like weather report, the return forever. the lifetime and the mob vision, we were the real fusion groups and so. I molded into that situation just like I would do any other situation. I wrote Snake oil and red alert as, as well as inspirations Love You did for me Baby, and a couple of other joy fields summer. And so I didn’t realize, even at the time when I wrote Red Alert,
Right? And so I’m hearing, I’m watching Star Trek one night, and then, you know, the red alert, right? Much means high intensity, high energy and all of that, right? So I hear the line in my head, mad Donald. Mad Donald. Mad Donald. Mad Donald, right? So, but then I hear the fourth, and so what I didn’t realize at the time, this was a pre-cognition of my musical discovery. I made a musical discovery. I found 15,000 new chord. I’ve written seven books, and I did that in 84. And then one day I’m sitting at the piano composing and I, and I’m thinking, I’m tired of hearing the same old sounds. I know there are some different sounds out there other than a 13th chord. And so I meditated on it. And then, through intuition and the creator, he tells me the answers in the overtone series. this is one thing that. America needs to get together is in their theory books. What happens is they don’t even teach you about overtones ever. And You can go all the way up to being a doctor to music and you never study the physics of sound. So what happened was, after I get this, intuition about, okay, the answer in the overtone series, I’m driving down the street and I get the notion to go into this used bookstore. And then I find this book, by this British professor named Ebenezer Proud, now I had went to UCLA, every library, every city we go to, I’d go to libraries and I’d be studying. And all of this, all the theory books I could find and physics, and so then, but all, everything over here only goes up to the 11th Harmonic. Now, in this book by Ebenezer Proud, first of all, it’s a theory book.
You can look it up. it’s on Google. First of all, it’s at the beginning of the book. So they teach you harmonics and overtones before you get in into the theory. Now, his overtone, role went up to the 16th harmonic so I could see a better picture of the relationships of all the overtones. So I noticed in, in the series that, okay, there’s office fifth, fourth, thirds and seconds. So then I started playing around just building cards of thefts. Now because I studied classical music, I know about Gregorian Ch, which is all fifths and fourths, but they only do two of ’em and they just keep stacking them the same too. And so whereas once I started like a 1 5 9, that’s a, a quintal chord. If you inverted, it becomes aqua court of fourths, just like the interval of a fifth. If you invert it, it becomes a fort. So I just sat there and I just did as much as I could. I mean, I’ve probably written over 200 pieces all these years, but in even a, a seven movement symphony using the sound,
I’m not crazy about AI tapping into this. Unless I can make a deal with the publishing company, then I’m willing to give them the whole catalog between the books and all of the music. But I don’t want the music be out there so it can scan it trained itself, and then come up with something that it didn’t create right? So getting back to the lifetime, playing with Grid alert and all of that. But I’m also playing with. Allen Holdsworth and Tony Williams, some of the greatest musicians ever lived. So Holdsworth is bringing his violin legato technique to the guitar. That’s what a lot of guitar players don’t understand. That’s where the technique comes from. That’s because he played violin. His father played violin. Like if you bow, a string on the violin, you can play, as many notes as you want on one bow. And so he brings that to the guitar where he can pick the string, but he can play a bunch of notes because his hands are already trained for that.
Now, the man also is a genius because he was like any other session and he always played the perfect. Thing for every song, right? And that’s what we did in the lifetime. We didn’t tell each other what to play or any of that, where somebody would come in with an idea and then we’d all just hone in on it and, explore our creativity. And that’s what we did. And so, Tony, the reason why I got the gig, and Jocko and Jeff Berlin and all these other people didn’t get the gig, was because I could lay down a pocket, I could lay down a groove, something that Tony could play to and be ambidextrous. He didn’t wanna hear somebody just playing a bunch of notes all the time. He wanted somebody with a feel and could lay it down so he could do his thing. So that’s the answer, to that question that I’m sure a lot of people would like to know. That’s it is because the pocket, it’s like what we were talking about before, playing on the beat, behind the beat in the head of the beat. All those things are very important when you are thinking musically. However, some people, don’t understand that realm of music, so they play one way or another, had the beat or behind the beat but they don’t understand that every piece of music is, in a different place timing wise playing with the lifetime was one of the best experiences of my life, because I’m playing with such great musicians, both musically. Creatively and they’re great human beings.
Dr. Decibel: And at the end of the day, you got the gig in the jazz fusion by playing. Yes. By playing in the pocket.
Tony Newton: Yeah, exactly. That playing in the pocket. and the thing about that doc is that if you go on Spotify, snake oil is getting over a million 0.3 plays as it is. Right? And it’s why, because it’s got a pocket, right? It’s got a funk pocket with all the fusion stuff, on top. And, Sometimes we’re playing in four and then other times we’re not playing in four like that’s not in four. And so some bars are five and some are four, and some are three and some are six. but we all can feel it naturally, so that’s why we can handle it, right? But as long as that pocket is there, it makes it, accessible to the listener. And that’s what made it such a strong tune as the pocket
Dr. Decibel: Is there a session or a track that you worked on that you think is underrated?
Tony Newton: not really. I use the same, rationalization as smoking e Every piece is like a child to me. My, and so I treat it like it’s a, it’s a own person. I mean, I played on so many songs. I don’t even remember a lot of them. Right. Like that one you just mentioned. I didn’t realize, that I played on it till I went in and listened to it. Oh, say, oh yeah. And so, I think I was one the Smokey Sessions. it was such an amazing experience at that time, at Motown. it’s unbelievable.
Dr. Decibel: Your baseline often walks a line between groove and virtuosity. Can you tell us how you approach building a base part
Tony Newton: First, I try to feel a simplistic. Groove a line, I find the perfect simple line. And then I build on the simple, let’s say single or just bottle ball, ball ball, bottle ball. And then we start playing it. All I’m playing is ball, ball, ball, Bo bo. Now I’m just plain simple as quarter notes, but they’re so deep in the pocket, you’re going to feel them and you’re going to be moved and touched by them, right? And so that’s how I approach it. Now, once I find a simple line, then I start creating, being creative with that line. That’s the next level. Okay, so how much can I do it? the first thing you can’t do on a record is over play. not when it comes to a song. That’s a no-no, it’s overplaying. So you have to find the balance between, your creativity and not going too far with it. ’cause you want to play what’s right for the song and for the artist, right? And so that’s my approach is to build a simple line first. And now in a lot of cases, everything is written out, right? So if it’s written out, I’m going to play what’s on the paper. However, I’ve been on Plenty Session where everything’s been written out. Like they wrote out everything here in California. But I changed it as I, you know, became familiar with the song. And they allowed me to play it because they liked what I was playing because I was able to, Tune in to, where the song was coming from and where the artist was coming from. So I would add, a little bit to whatever they had written out. So there are sessions where there’s only poor charts and you make up your online and then there are sessions where they put a little bit of a part, maybe they just give you a direction. And then there are sessions where, they’ve written out everything. So you’ve got these three areas that you need to be able to deal with, be creative with at the same time.
Dr. Decibel: You’ve been called baby funk brother.
Tony Newton: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Decibel: How would you define the essence of funk base?
Tony Newton: Oh, okay. It’s just like what I was telling you. Well, you can hear Bootsy talking about on the one, and you can talk about that’s why he was playing, with James. James would emphasize the one, the one is, and George Clinton as well. Flunk is on the one. It’s just like what I was just telling you a minute ago, I was going phone, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Now I can go boom, boom, boom, boom, and I can just keep on going. Right? And so as long and now if I wanna play ball, I can add more stuff and I can change the timing myself, but it will still. Fit that pocket. Right. And that’s the the main thing. So for me, funk is all about the one, and you just have to stay well grounded inside yourself. And what I mean is your spirit and soul needs to be locked in as, as one. And you can feel the funk you know, there’s a lot of great bass players out there, but they don’t play funky. It’s amazing how Victor and Mohey, they both play a billion notes and they’re great bass players, but when it comes to playing a, a funk line or a solid pocket, they’re not even close. And I don’t understand that because any of my students, I teach ’em that the pocket comes first. That’s what the playing the base is about. It’s not. Sure. The bass, all instruments have evolved over time. And so, and they’re playing in techniques like bass used to be very simple. And now it’s more complicated to play bass these days, and you, the play with more notes and more speed and, and all of that. But you should not forget the true purpose of the bass. And that’s where I’m at. I’m a real bass player first before I do the virtual, also on the solo thing.
Dr. Decibel: If there were young musicians that wanted to understand the Tony Newton sound, what track or tracks would you suggest they listen to?
Tony Newton: Well, that’s a hard one, right? Because there are so many of them. You know, I think I’m gonna put a list of songs I’ve played on my webpage. I got it. So if they go to my YouTube channel, Antonio Tony Newton, there’s a complete historical playlist there and there are over 200 pieces that I’ve played on, throughout history.
Now there’s one person you haven’t mentioned and that was Gary Moore. Did you know I played in GForce with Gary Martin.
Dr. Decibel: I know that you sat in on a Mamas and Papas session.
Tony Newton: Yeah. The Mamas and Papas album. I did that with them. They bought me in to play on that session so they wouldn’t sound the thing, and it was quite an experience doing that session.
now, this is the first session I ever went to where there was a. bowl of cocaine on the piano. Not that I was into drugs or anything, but it was the first time I had been on a group session where they had all these drugs in the actual session.
And so it freaked me out, but it didn’t stop me from playing The only one I’ve ever seen. I still, that’s what I remember, even though each one of them were, you know, a fantastic, Creative people. Right. A music artist, each one of them.
Dr. Decibel: Yeah, absolutely. But let’s face it, that was the beginning of the end for the Mamas and the Papas, and we all know what happened to John Phillips going down that road.
Exactly. how amazing. You have worn so many hats, bassist, producer, composer, music director. Are there any roles that feel more natural to you? Just, just like, this is what it is?
Tony Newton: Well, they’re all the same to me, but it’s all music. And my mission, I believe in life, is to make music, to help people.
Become the best that they can be because I know that that’s the purpose of music in life. It’s not just to have fun, it’s to stimulate your brain, to stimulate your soul and spirit. It’s going to open up different dimensions of awareness and consciousness,
Oh, you don’t know why you like it, but you know you like it and you start thinking different. Right? You know, I have a doctorate in metaphysics and my, thesis is on the healing effects of music. So I studied a lot of that as well. And that’s how I came to this conclusion. ’cause I didn’t know what was going on in my life.
I was just doing, what was that? What came naturally to me. My neighbor had a piano at their house. one of our neighbors. But my. Parents couldn’t. Okay. My father worked at Florida. I’m a Florida baby, so he worked at Florida all his life. And my stepmother was, she worked at the Sheridan Hotels. And so, so I used go over that this neighbors house and play piano, but then they couldn’t afford a piano.
My parents couldn’t afford a piano, so they bought me a plastic saxophone one Christmas. So I played the keys off of it, and this was still before elementary school. So then in those days, I started elementary school. And in those days, you know, they give you an instrument to take home with you so you have something to practice.
So I started off on clarinet, so I went through all of the woodwinds, all the clarinets, all the flutes, and all of the faxes. And so I did all of this, Until my teens, just like what we were talking about until the early sixties when the electric base came on the scene. So that’s when I got into it. So I was just doing music and I’ve only done music my whole life.
one day I was broke or something, so I thought I’d get a job. I’d never had a job. So I got this job at this factory throwing steel. I lasted three days before they fired me at night. I was still playing. And so I think after about the fifth day. That’s when Motown discovered me, right?
That’s when he found me in that club. And so music’s all I’ve ever done. And then so at a certain point in life, I figured out my mission to end life is to play music and to help people become the best they can through music. And I guess that’s the simplest way I could put it.
Dr. Decibel: I’m your good buddy, Dr.
Decibel. And if you’re just joining us, we are live on the phone with Tony Newton, a legend on the base who comes all the way back from Motown. We are going to take a little break and here’s some music, and then we will be back on the phone with Tony Newton. So don’t go anywhere. This is a track that Tony played on.
What Love Has Joined Together by Smokey Robinson. Keep it tuned right here to KGNU Community Radio. All right, and we are back. I’m your good buddy, Dr. Decibel, broadcasting high in the Rocky Mountains, and I am live on the phone with our very special guest, Tony Newton. Thank you once again for joining us here on the air.
I want to talk a little bit about the film. You are the subject of the documentary Groove Monster and I had a chance to preview this film before our interview, How did the idea for the film come about and what’s it like to see your life and career on the screen there right in front of you?
Tony Newton: Well, this is the true story. the producer of Standing in the Shadows wasn’t interested in accuracy. That’s why I wasn’t in the movie, but my name is in the credits I called him up and asked him, why am I not in the movie I’m the only person that’s ever done two basses.
at Motown I played more tune than him. he tells me, well, nobody mentioned your name. I know that that’s not true. I called Jack Ashford. Jack Ashford said, I mentioned your name to him because you was the only one next to Jameson, that we had been working with. And it hurt me really, deeply that I was not in The movie I’m gonna make my own damn movie.
So that’s what I did. I put the Groove monster together and it’s based on my movie, gold Thunder.
Dr. Decibel: What do you hope that viewers are gonna take away from the Groove Monster, especially younger musicians who may not know your full history yet?
Tony Newton: Well, the whole point of the movie, as I say in, the beginning and the bass player, don’t get no respect.
It’s just that people are more interested in a guitar player or violinist or pist. Lately, I would say maybe past 10, 15 years, they’ve started to understand, the importance of the electric base. And so, that’s why I made the movie is to show people the importance of the electric bass, and the value of it in contemporary and popular music.
Do you think hip
Dr. Decibel: hop’s had anything to do with that?
Tony Newton: No. No. This was way before hip hop, but the subwoofer didn’t really get into everyone’s living room until, oh, I loved the bass lines and hip hop music. And I love the beats in hip hop music, and I have some, like in Thunder Funk fusion like love and money as well as the Mars piece that if we get around to talking about that, it’s got a hip hop drum pattern.
It does, but it’s got the funk bass line to it, right? And so the base is what drives that piece the way it is, as opposed to the original gusto hold composition. I kept everything together. I want to be true to Gus’s vision of the piece. I just want to expand on it because orchestra. Well, the orchestra’s been expanding on recordings all day long for many years.
It’s just like an orchestra with a rhythm section is extremely powerful as far as I’m concerned. So that’s why I put the Mars Eclipse song together, and then as it inspired me so much that I went on and dipped the full movie.
Dr. Decibel: So let’s talk about the Mars quest a little bit. The Mars quest for some of our listeners that may not know yet, is a ambitious fusion of music, science and storytelling.
What inspired you to create this project?
Tony Newton: Well, the main thing that in inspired me most was the piece itself. Mars, a suite of pieces called the Planets, and most orchestras do Mars because it’s the most popular one out of the whole suite. So,
and that’s the, the motive of the piece. And so it inspired me musically. The idea came to me. Well, let me put a hip hop beat and a good bass line to it and find a guitar player that’s like Holdsworth, I can play legato, which meaning, so we’re taking the violin up a level by having guitar players do this, legato style.
So Josh Ramos is the one that you are left, is two of ’em. Tommy Oregon. Tommy Oregon from Michael Jackson and Josh Ramos. Josh is doing the solo on the one that you heard. In fact, it took me probably five times over. 10 years or 10, maybe even 15, to get it to the last one that you heard, right. The Mars eclipse, because I recorded it that many times,
Get it to the perfect level of this last one. So I was so inspired by how it turned out, the performances on it that I said, well, I’m going to do a whole movie on it. So I went from, I went from Galileo to Elon. Right, right. You know, it used to be one of the, the most rev revered creative minds on the planet, but I don’t think he has that same, you know, support these days.
You know, I went through, like I say, from Galileo to Elon, from Nassau. There was over, it, it was a tribute to the 50 people and animals that have been died in the course of developing the Mars trips, right. Trips to the planet Mars. I was, I’m interested, I’ve always been interested in space and space travel.
That was a lot of my motivation to create the movie.
Dr. Decibel: You’ve developed a science of harmonic integration in music. Can you explain what that means in your own words?
Tony Newton: Yes. Okay. Nova Phonics. First of all, Nova is the birth of a newborn star, where it’s a lot of energy that comes off of that.
So that’s the same thing happens with music. When you hit a note or couple of notes, then a bunch of overtones happen, right? So that’s the nova part, and the phonic means sound. So from there, all I was trying to do, ’cause we’re talking about quintal and qua harmony instead of ter and harmony. Now when I say quintal and qua harmony, that means harmonies of fifths and fourths.
Now you’ve heard. IES of force from Keith Jar and McCord Tyler and, and Herbie. They’ve done things, but they only used a few chords. I found 15,000 chords. I was working with a astrophysicist. We sat down, we did every possible combination. So my harmonic sound, Nova Phonics goes all the way up to 12 note chords.
They don’t stop at, you know, six notes, or they go from, you know, from three to 12 tones in a chord. And they’re all, let’s say all of this is based on math. I found a realm of math that relates to music that no one else in history.
2, 2, 2, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4. All of that is the dimension of what I’m talking about now. For me, it’s the natural evolution of harmony and I’ve shown it to quite a few people, but nobody’s willing to put in the work. Now, just as we are speaking, I am talking to Paul Wiser. He is the ranger that brings most of the stuff at Motown and I showed it to him and he’s all into it.
He sent to Halts and he is then to the Mars piece. And then I explained all, all of the technical aspects of que and quarrel harmony, and he’s pretty excited. And we wanna do something with the Detroit Symphony. I start speaking in, schools in Detroit and teaching them this. And hopefully, because like I told you, I’ve written seven books on it.
One Noble Financial Universal Harmony, that’s in, that’s on Amazon. And then I have, keyboard techniques, the history, the evolution of it. Beethoven was writing in fifths on his deathbed. Right? That, and then there was Paul Eth. He had wrote a book on fifth and fourths, but he did not cover all of the colors.
Let me explain that. There’s what’s called consonance and dissonance. That’s what most people like black and white. Well, we all know the world is not black and white. My friend taught me there’s love, excluded, middle, which some things are gray, right? So I put just like color. There’s three colors that make up all the whole rainbow of colors.
So consonance means a stable cord. Dissonance means that unstable cord. So I made up a new ground called transcendence, which is passing. So I put all of the chords into these three groups I’m thinking in color. And so color and tension, tension and release.
That’s why consonants and dissonance didn’t do it for me. It didn’t give enough range to work with, so that’s why I came up with the ants, the middle ground, which is passing. So I had fable passing and unstable dimensions of music, and so if they were listened to romance, it’s on YouTube. There’s romance and prophecy.
These are two piano pieces that use only the and quarrel sound, right? So what my thing, what I would like to inspire most musicians is to, is to start learning about this new sound because. That’s exactly what it is. It’s new harmonies, it’s new sound. It is the natural evolution of what we’ve been hearing.
You know, it takes work just like anything else, right? Like learning your instrument, learning how to compose. But it’s not impossible. I’ve, with all my books, I’ve tried to make it as easy as possible by showing ex examples and simple ways and, you know, different things that you could do with it.
And, I’ve been involved with it ever since 84, so I’ve been sitting on it and working with it over 40 years now. So it’s like, another musical family. and I want to get it out to as many, people as possible, and I’m hoping I can make a deal with a publishing company and AI company, really to get this stuff out to the world.
Dr. Decibel: One last question and then we’ll let you go. What advice are you gonna give to any young artist out there who’s really trying to stay authentic in today’s music industry?
Tony Newton: Right. I think you came up with the right word. Authentic. And so they have to be themselves and believe in themselves. Now, there’s nothing wrong with.
Having influences. Listen to the people that you like and take what they do and implement it into your realm, but make it your own. Now these days it’s not easy being a musician, but you have more exposure to the world than you’ve ever had before in life. So now’s a great time to be a musician, but you also have gotta work hard for it because you’ve gotta do the marketing yourself, and you’ve gotta write meaningful music.
Now, AI has come along, of course, writing, and a lot of people write songs with ai. Let me tell you this, like my next song that’s coming out is called The Cats Come Out at Night. I tried chat, GBT. I said, okay, you write me the lyrics. I had already written the lyrics of the song and I was happy. I just wanted to see if I could make ’em better.
So I told Chap GPT to write the song and the lyrics, and I still have the copy of Chat GBTs version of it, but it just wasn’t as meaningful, poetic, or as deep. I’ve explored AI, and AI is good for writing music, but it’s not the same thing. It will never have the deeper meaning that comes from a human being.
The spirit and the soul aspect of that will not be in ai. So you person can, sure it will make things easier for some people, but what they need to realize is if they put in the homework themselves, then the song is going to have much more meaning to people when they write the song and it will touch more people because of the meaning that you’ve transferred from your soul and spirit to the music.
So I say, first of all, every artist that’s ever been famous, there’s not another one like it. So that ought to teach ’em one thing, right? That you have to be yourself, but to be the best part of yourself, just keep developing yourself, keep studying, keep listening to as much music as you can.
All kinds of music, not just one kind of music. That’s my thing, as I try to listen to as much music as I possibly can. ’cause I get different things from each style and types of music and different artists. I like female artists. I like male artists. I like groves. I like kowal, I like country. in fact, as I was growing up.
There wasn’t a lot of radio stations, and so I had to listen to country music, I wake up at the clock, radio would be going on, but I got into the lyrics and the stories of country music and that kind of started me going to, when I, and I didn’t even realize that, that it would affect me later in life when I’m, you know, writing lyrics and things like that.
And so the main thing is, one, is keep their mind open to learning because life is teaching us something every moment, every day, every month, every year. and to be a great artist, you need to be true to yourself and work as hard as you can. Like any great mathematician, great carpenter, great painter, great car builder.
’cause it don’t have to be all of it’s creative. We are all creative beings. And if we tune into our own creativity, what the creator has given us, then we’re going to be on the right path.
Dr. Decibel: If you’re just joining us, we are wrapping up our interview with the great Tony Newton. Tony, thank you so much for taking time out to join us here on Dusty Grooves at KGNU Radio.
We thank you for your work, which has shaped generations of music lovers, and it’s just been an honor to dive into these stories, behind the sounds. Thank you so much for your time.
Tony Newton: Thank you so much. As I mentioned in the beginning, the honor is all mine and I appreciate you and all your listeners.
Dr. Decibel: Right on Brother. Until next time, keep it funky. I’m your good buddy, Dr. Decibel. Keep it tuned right here to KGNU Community Radio.
Tony Newton: Thank you.
